Forum Activity for @robin-thompson

@lisavb Strum quietly at 7:50.  :)

Oh, no, can't play before bedtime.  We have birds, and they are in bed by 8pm, so playing after 8 is not an option.  :)

Found the right button to start a new topic. Thanks. You might come to regret it!

Oh, @lisavb, she needs you just a few minutes before bedtime, at least.  :)

She is such a joy to hold--I knew you all would understand!!!  Yeah, yesterday was one of those days I couldn't get to her--likely same today, unfortunately.  Bet she is sitting there, getting crabby!  LOL!  

No need to apologize, @rojo.  There are lots of nooks and crannies here at FOTMD and it might not be obvious which is the best one. The overall goal is for our conversations to be usable and searchable months and years from now.  So you might imagine someone joining in a year with a question such as yours. Where would they look for information?

Apologies.  I'll get to grips with the site shortly, hopefully.

As a complement, for those interested in further information about the balouch banjo, i recommend the reading of the following article by Jean During.

Jean During is a musician and ethnomusicologist who spent 9 years in Iran. He is a reference for his work and knowledge of  sufi and extatic music in central Asia. By the way he quotes Ulrich in the side notes.

4-01.-Article-NEMO-n°3-4-Jean-During-STS_compressed.pdf - 567KB

@rojo, you might want to pose these kinds of questions in the Dulcimer Making Group , where builders discuss their work.  Here in this more general forum there are lots of folks like me for whom instrument construction is no more familiar than ancient Greek.  Make sure you "join" the group first so you can see all the conversations already there, but then feel free to start a conversation specific to your question.

Thanks.

I'm messing on with the fret board at the moment.I've gone for hollow but deliberating as weather to open up the sound board or not.

Any advice gratefully received.

rob.

Each tuning needs its own tab, marg, but a small adjustment may be all that's needed.

However, there are obvious limitations.  In a 1-5-7 tuning in D, meaning DAC, there is no F# on the melody string. So you cannot play a D major chord as you would in DAA or DAd.  But that's the point. It's a tuning for minor-sounding melodies.

There are two main reasons why people who fret across all the strings and play chords change tunings a lot less than drone style players.  One is that we don't need to since we have access to notes not available on the melody string.  But the second is that a new tuning requires learning new chords shapes. 

(However, if you only fret on the melody string,)

I don't just use the melody, I was using that as an example - I know I can play in DAA using a DGD tab & the other way around, the melody string tab is the same with both - I just need to change my cords. So, I was wondering if the 157 or 154 could be played in tabs I had a lot of, like the DAd or DAA or DGd on the melody string - I could than put the cords with it or if they needed their own tabs?

yes, capos changes the tunings quickly and either there is a tab or if you know the pattern of the tab can just do a DAd or DAA - like put a capo on say the 3rd fret and if there isn't a tab written out for capo 3 just play the DAd tab pattern, the 2,3,&1 Dad tab would be played on the 5th, 6th, & 4th frets 

Interesting and confusing, the more we learn the more there is.

   I knew about some of the tunings but when I hear about the GGd - it made me wonder just how many there are. I am sure each instrument has a tuning it sounds the best with. Now, I'm thinking to try which one of the G tunings sounds best on one of my dulcimers, GGD, DGd, GDd or GDg  can they all be played in DGD tabs ... - ... what about GDc or GDf# is it also a G turning or something else in 154 & 157 

Thank you for taking time to post all of this, I hope it helps many others

You're getting it. Marg.  Remember in my first post when I mentioned that if you are tuned to D, you can probably go down to C or up to E, but going lower or higher than those keys would require different strings?  One reason to use a "reverse" tuning like DGd would be to play in the key of G while still using the same set of strings.

Another thing: the drones can only be the 1 and the 5, but you don't necessarily have to have both.  For example, a "unison" tuning of ddd is quite common. In that case you only have the 1 drone and there is no 5.

And yes, you can theoretically invent any number of tunings.  The Canadian dulcimer player Rick Scott uses all kinds of bizarre tunings.  Some of them, he admits, he arrived at because his old wooden peg tuners slipped, but he just left them and wrote a new song!  

However, if you only fret on the melody string, then you are limited because the drones should only be the 1 and/or 5, and you also have to have the right fret spacing for the melody you want to play.

ok, getting it

 the bass and middle strings are 1 and 5 and the only string that changes is the melody string.

(DGd is a little different, but you could just count the same way we did before to find other tunings in that pattern.  It is a little different because DGd is considered a "reverse" tuning where the root (or the 1, that is the note that tells us the key) is on the middle string.)

OK, I wrote out lots of #'s & letters to match up to the 155, 158, 154 &157 - that I understand now but what tabs would 154 &157 play?

but is the GGd like 115 & DDa, EEb, AAe, CCg - what tabs would they play? GGd I play DGd tab, what tabs could CCg play

How many of these can someone make up? Ha, my page now looks like some kind of code, I feel like you could shuffle many of these around to make more & more tunings.

Yes.  You got it!

I meant 1-1-5 for GGD.  Sorry about that. I just changed it in the original to avoid any confusion.

Technically, the only possible drones are the 1 and the 5. That is why in most tunings, the bass and middle strings are 1 and 5 and the only string that changes is the melody string.

DGd is a little different, but you could just count the same way we did before to find other tunings in that pattern.  It is a little different because DGd is considered a "reverse" tuning where the root (or the 1, that is the note that tells us the key) is on the middle string.  DGd is used in the same way as GDd, so it is an Ionian or 1-5-5 tuning, but technically it would be 5-1-5. What is reversed is simply the order of the 1 and the 5 notes on the drones.

Of the four main tunings I referred to earlier, 1-5-5 (Ionian) and 1-5-8 (Mixolydian) sound major, and 1-5-4 (Dorian) and 1-5-7 (Aeolian) sound minor. There is separate tab for those tunings.  If you play in a drone style where you only fret the melody string, you have to use those tunings for certain tunes.  For example, to play Shady Grove you will tune to a  1-5-7 tuning and your root or resting place will be on the first fret.  

Because a lot of tab is now written for people (like myself) who fret across all the strings and make use of other tools (some would say "crutches") such as capos and extra frets, many tunes that were once only played in 1-5-7 or 1-5-4 tunings can be written in 1-5-8 or 1-5-5 tunings.  To use that same example, if you tune 1-5-8 and use a capo at the first fret, you can play Shady Grove, but you will have to make use of the middle string for some of the melody. Similarly, if you have a 1+ fret you can also play the tune without a capo in DAd, again sometimes using the middle string. These methods are not traditional, though.

Dusty, thanks the numbers make sense this way.

So, if DAd is 158, any combination of 158 I could play a DAd tab - like your EBe, CGc, Bfb it would just be in a different key but I could play a DAd tab

or DAA 155, again any combination of 155 I could play a DAA tab like FCC, EBB, CGG

what would DGd be 148 but all your numbers are 15 something or GGd ( or is it 115) - i think this doesn't make any sense to me once I get away from the 155 or 158

154 & 157 have their own tabs? Can they be played on just the melody line with any of the other tabs?

Marg, the short answer is that there are 12 possible keys to tune to for any specific tuning.

The important information in your question is the numbers to which you refer.  Those refer to scale positions of the notes.

Let's start with D and count the letters until we come back to D.

D = 1

E = 2

F# = 3

G = 4

A = 5

B= 6

C = 7

D = 8

So DAA is 1-5-5, DAC is 1-5-7, DAG is 1-5-4, and DAd is 1-5-8.  Those are the 4 main tunings we use. (Although I find the use of modal names for tunings to be confusing, in case you are wondering, 1-5-5 is Ionian, 1-5-8 is mixolydian, 1-5-4 is Dorian, and 1-5-7 is Aeolian.)

You can start on any note, not just D.  As you know, EBe and CGc are other 1-5-8 tunings.  But you could start on any note you want and arrange the strings in the same pattern.  Let's try F.

F = 1

G= 2

A = 3

Bb = 4

C = 5

D = 6

Eb = 7

F = 8

So a 1-5-8 tuning would be FCf.   A 1-5-5 tuning would be FCC.  A 1-5-4 tuning would be FCBb.  A 1-5-7 tuning would be FCEb.

There are twelve notes in the chromatic scale, and we could start this pattern on any of them, so each tuning can be used for any of the 12 keys.

However, in practice, folk, old-timey, bluegrass, or Celtic sessions usually stick to 4 main keys: C, D, G, and A.  So you might want to just ensure you know how to play in each of those keys rather than worry about the oddballs like Eb or F or Ab or whatever.

And remember that if you are tuned to the key of D, you can probably tune down to C or up to E, but any more than that you will probably need to change strings.

To your question about GGD, a "normal" 1-1-5 or Ionian tuning in G would be GDD.  So your GGD just uses two G drones instead.  But to figure out how to use that tuning in other keys, just count.

G = 1

A = 2

B= 3

C#= 4

D = 5

And we don't even have to go any higher.  Tune your bass and middle strings to whatever note you want, start on that letter as number 1 and count to 5.  That 5 will be the note you want for the melody string.

C, D, E, F, G, so in C, it would be CCG.  ABC#DE, so in A it would be AAE.

Again, if you know the alphabet and can count to 8, you can do this yourself.

How many different tunings can go with the standard tabs of DAdd or DAA or DGD

Is there a list somewhere?

I would like to try a number of different tunings but not sure what they would be or what tab I could play with them. I know theirs  #'s 155,158 but I don't understand that, so looking for a list of tunings.

I know ones like CGc,  EBe & so on & play the DAd tabs

GGd I just hear the other day, so many I don't know - how would I find out the different tunings?

thanks

Awesome!

So good to hear. Enjoy your cherry McSpadden. She may get crabby on days you don't have time to give her the attention she craves.

I'm glad you are enjoying your McSpadden dulcimer. Having an instrument you love means you will want to play it often, and it sounds like this is true for you. Best wishes for your dulcimer journey.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Wow, @rojo!  That back is stunningly beautiful!  So cool.

Thanks Robin. It whiles away the 'lockdown' hours. 

Here is the back. Plenty left to do. 

 IMG_2890.JPG - 243KB

@lisavB Yay!  I am happy you love your McSpadden and understand having a mountain dulcimer which you feel is just the right fit in every way.  Enjoy!  

I've been meaning to post/say this.  I am in love with my McSpadden (arrived in November).  Completely, totally, hopelessly.  I love the way she looks (that cherry wood grain! that micarta! those perfect frets!), the way she sounds, the way she plays.  I even love the smell of the wood itself.  Money well spent.  Thanks again to everyone who offered their advice (though I'm sure a Folkcraft would have been a wonderful choice as well) when I was hemming and hawing.  I get crabby on days I run out of time and can't play...  :)  

Those look good to me, @rojo! 

Ok I'm going to try again via the add attachment button to post sound holes. Took it with the selfie camera lens hoping it would be small enough 

 IMG_2889.JPG - 478KB

Someone's a bit ...sensitive perhaps? 

Etsy seems to be a good place to order little rooted plants and cuttings from smaller garden sites and individual sellers. I'm still waiting another week til my 2nd covid vaccine protection kicks in... at which time I need to go to a big garden center and get some soil and pots for my repotting plans here at home.

Meanwhile, I succumbed to temptation and ordered three new baby plants from etsy sellers. 
I got a "string of turtles" plant (a 3" pot with several rooted stem cuttings planted in it). Also ordered two hoyas- I've never had hoyas before but I hear that folks get obsessed with them. They look cool and put out trailing vines. The two baby hoyas i bought were Hoya 'retusa' and Hoya 'pubicalyx royal Hawaiian purple'. The plants should all get here within the next ten days or so, and the forecast looks kind. I don't expect them to look like much since they are little cutting babies or just baby plants.
All three of these new plants are going into hanging pots in front of our kitchen window, and my office window. I have not had any hanging indoor house plants since we bought this house 18 yrs ago, so that should be interesting.

@Strumelia dared to say "I think dogs are dumber and will eat quantities of poison stuff.  (sorry, couldn't resist! lololol!)  "  Spoken like a true cat person as it reflects the opinion cats so often show.  Yeah, you better fit that emoji & duck!

(Tempted to add an emoji, but it would be a shame to start another Cat & Dog war.)

Final not Fina ( I hate autocorrect)

This works fine. Fina. Version after two prototypes.

 20210321_164146.jpg - 171KB

This one is very nice.

https://www.aparat.com/v/vB4jJ/

Thank you for the link. Great ressource.

I agree, in India the bulbul tarang has still maintained the characteristics of the japanese original model : a typewriter with poor sound. However, in Balouchistan since it arrived 70 years ago the instrument has changed so much as regards esthetic but mostly building and sound that it has taken its place among the traditional instruments like sorud and ghaychak. Yesterday for No rouz, the persian new year, i watched a tv program showing traditional songs and music from all parts ot Iran and there was a balouch benjo in the middle. That's incredible such a new instrument has reached similar status into this traditional and renowned conservative culture !

I put a video of Mohamad Delnavaz a iranian master of benju. He is permanently working with builders to improve the instrument.

 COVER2 posht.jpg - 113KB

That's cool. Thanks for the video. Some photos of these instruments and it's japanese precedessor can be found on the page  of fellow FOTMD member Wilfried "ulricus" Ullrich: http://www.ulrich-instrumente.de/die-hummel/

According to him in 1906 japanese luthier/musician Goro Morita got funding by the imperial government for a research trip in Europe for western instruments (imho some kind of musical industrial espionage ;) ). Back home he started to build a kind of hummel/dulcimer by using typewriter keys: The  Taishokoto. Later these instruments came to India and Pakistan and evolved to the benjo and after second world war  to the bulbul tarang (sounding nightingale, these instruments have piano case and an integrated suitcase, quite handy, sadly the sound not so good according to ulricus).
If you can read German you find the details on Wilfrieds website with many photos.

Tom, since I'm not a beekeeper, I can't help you if you want a whole tune on that topic. 

My approach would be different and treat beekeeping as a metaphor. Maybe have the first verse about looking forward to springtime only to see that half your bees are gone.  Then the other verses would be about other things or people that have left.  One verse on bees, one on age taking about your athletic ability, one on your fruit tree drying up, on one a woman leaving. You get the point.

OR . . . instead of the theme being loss, it could be lots of work with no reward, so you put in all this work to keep bees and end up with no honey.  You lavish love and presents on your woman, and she leaves you.  You spend weeks building a garden, and the plants bear no fruit.  You spend weeks crushing grapes but they go straight to vinegar and you get no wine.  You spend a year of weekends rebuilding that '68 Mustang and someone steels it before you ever take it for a ride. That sort of thing.  The bee hive would still be the first verse and give the tune it's title: "Big Hive, No Honey."

"What's the buzz in the bee yard?"

I can't help with song lyrics about bees & blues yet do know I love honey.